Question: Could you explain further how the mind is the surface of the heart, and the heart the depth of the mind.
Answer: There are five fingers but one hand, there are several organs of the body but one body, and there is a universe full of variety but one Spirit. So there is one heart which feels the various thoughts and imaginations which spring up and then sink into it. The bubbles are to be found on the surface of the sea. The depth of the sea is free from bubbles. The commotion is to be seen on the surface, the depth of the sea is still. The mind is the commotion of that something which is within us, that something which we call heart.

The happiness, the knowledge, the pleasure, the love which is stored in our innermost being is in our profound depth; changing emotions and passions, dreams, ever rising thoughts and imaginations all belong to the surface, as the bubbles belong to the surface of the sea.

Question: Can we say that the heart is nearer to the soul, and the mind nearer to the body.
Answer: Yes, in a certain way. But at the same time the soul experiences through the whole being: through the body, through the mind, through the heart, as it happens to be in different planes of existence.

Question: Is the heart one of the soul's bodies.
Answer: Certainly. The heart is one of the bodies of the soul, the finest body. It goes a long way with the soul, even on its return journey.

Question: Is the heart the same as the angelic body?
Answer: Yes, quite true.

Question: Is it therefore that the Catholics have a special devotion for the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
Answer: Of course. The heart is the shrine of God. If God is ever to be found anywhere it is in the heart of man, especially in the heart of that man in whom the divine manifests.

Question: Is the heart the home of the soul.
Answer: Yes, one may call the heart a home of the soul, but I would call it a temporary hotel.

Question: Is the world of feelings higher than the world of thoughts?
Answer: Yes.

Question: What is indifference.
Answer: This is a word that I always find difficult to explain, and I have made many people angry by talking about indifference, for they say: "Where is the love which you have come to preach to us? Indifference is quite contrary to love, to the message, to the teaching." And when people read in Buddhism and Yogism about renunciation, nirvana, vairagia - which in the Sufi terms of the Persian poets is fana - they begin to ask: "Have they all taught to become indifferent, have they taught such cruelty?"

But in reality it is quite a different thing. Indifference is not lovelessness nor is it lack of sympathy. Indifference is most useful at the time when a soul has arrived at that sensitiveness when every little thing hurts. Then it is only indifference which keeps it alive.

[Indifference about how others treat you, not indifference about the condition of others. See the topic, "Character, Five Characteristics" ]

You might say that it is not good to be sensitive. Yes, but without being sensitive you cannot evolve. Sensitiveness is a sign of evolution. If you are not sensitive you cannot feel in sympathy with your fellowmen. If you do not feel the feelings of your fellowmen, then you are not yet awake to life. Therefore in order to become a normal human being one has to develop sensitiveness, or at least to arrive at sensitiveness. And when you are sensitive, then life becomes difficult to live. The more sensitive you are, the more thorns you will find on your way. Every move you make, at every turn, at every step there is something to hurt you. It is only one spirit that you can develop, and that is the spirit of indifference - yet not taking away the love and sympathy you have for another: that is the right indifference.

To say to a person: "I do not care for you, because you have been thoughtless", that is not the right kind of indifference, that is not the indifference that mystics relate as being vairagia. The mystical indifference is that a soul retains sympathy and love even at the thoughtlessness of a person, and expresses it as forgiveness.

In the Bible we read the words of Christ: "Turn the other side of your face if a person has struck you on one side."

What else is this than the lesson of indifference? How can a sensitive person, a person of feeling, a spiritual, tenderhearted person live in this world, if he is not indifferent? He cannot live here one moment! There is only this one thing that protects him from the continual jarring influences that come from all sides.

Question: Why not call it detachment.
Answer: Detachment is not really the right word.

We cannot be detached, we are never detached. Life is one and nothing can separate it. Detachment is only an illusionary aspect of life. There is no such thing as detachment in truth. How can there be detachment when life is one!

Often in order to make it clearer I have said: "Indifference and independence": two meanings of that one word vairagia. Indifference alone explains it only by half.